Bttt
Hobo Ken
JoinedPosts by Hobo Ken
-
70
What really matters to the elders- Podcast 9 Judicial Hearing
by Hobo Ken inthis is the next part of the story, when the judicial hearings begin.
click on the link here to listen...deathorobedience.blogspot.com.
also free on itunes here.
-
-
-
70
What really matters to the elders- Podcast 9 Judicial Hearing
by Hobo Ken inthis is the next part of the story, when the judicial hearings begin.
click on the link here to listen...deathorobedience.blogspot.com.
also free on itunes here.
-
-
Hobo Ken
Dear Brothers,
Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to call in to see me on Saturday. I want to take this opportunity to state my intentions regarding your request for me to attend a meeting with yourselves on 21/01/09 at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses. The following points are for your consideration prior to me agreeing to meet with you ;
1. I shall be notified in writing of the time, place and purpose of any meetings with a judicial committee.
2. I shall be notified in writing of the exact purpose of the meetings.
3. I shall be notified in writing exactly on whose behalf the judicial committee was convened and is acting: the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation , the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
4. If any other agency other than the one for whom the judicial committee has informed me they are acting for is consulted, reported to, or allowed to have any bearing on the outcome of the judicial process, I will consider the judicial committee as acting in their behalf.
5. I shall be notified in writing as to my status as a member of any and all of the organizations for which the committee is acting or to which the committee will report.
6. I insist that the judicial committee immediately cease, and in the future desist from any actions toward or against me in behalf of any corporation or organization of which I am not a member.
7. I shall be notified in writing of any accusations against me, the names of persons making such accusations and the substance of any evidence against me.
8. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the judicial process.
9. I shall be given sufficient time between notification of any meetings with a judicial committee and the time of the actual meeting to prepare a response to any accusations.
10. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during all meetings between me and the judicial committee as an observer. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the judicial committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the Legal Department of the International Bible Students Association or any other legal corporation, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.
11. During the meetings with the judicial committee I and/or my observer will be allowed to take whatever notes we feel are necessary.
Additionally, if the judicial committee takes any judicial action against me;
12. I will not recognize any action taken by the judicial committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.
13. In this written communication the judicial committee must state exactly on whose behalf they have taken the action, specifically the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
14. If the judicial committee has stated that it is acting only for the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the judicial committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies of reports to anyone outside the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.
15. I may appeal any action taken by the judicial committee.
16. Before I will meet with an appeal committee, that committee must notify me in writing of the names of all of the members of the appeal committee and who each one represents: the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or it’s legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
17. There shall be no contact between the judicial committee and the appeal committee other than to inform them of the time and place of my meetings with them. If I determine that there is any contact, communication or attempt on the part of any of the members of the original judicial committee or anyone acting on their behalf to, in any way prejudice or sway the appeal committee, I will insist that a new appeal committee be formed.
18. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the appeal process.
19. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during the all meetings between me and the appeal committee. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the appeal committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.
20. During the meetings with the appeal committee I and/or my observer will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.
21. I will not recognize any action taken by the appeal committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.
22. In this written communication the appeal committee must state exactly on whose behalf they are taking the action, specifically the Bishopbriggs Congregationion of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
23. If the appeal committee has stated that it is acting only for the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the appeal committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.
24. I understand that if I am disfellowshipped by the judicial committee and the disfellowshipping is upheld by the appeal committee that I am, at that point, no longer considered to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I also understand that it is necessary to make a brief announcement that I have been disfellowshipped. From then on, I will consider any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovah’s Witnesses to treat me differently from any other person that is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a serious violation of my civil rights and I may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that I deem appropriate. This includes any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any present Jehovah’s Witnesses to shun or avoid me, cease or otherwise modify their doing business with me, or terminate or otherwise abrogate any lease, rental, mortgage, or any other legal agreement that I may presently have with them. I may consider such to be an infringement of free trade and may initiate appropriate legal action.
25. I consider any communication between the members of the judicial committee and myself and the appeal committee and myself to be ecclesiastically privileged. Any attempt to reveal the substance or tone of those communications to any other person or group will be considered by me to be a breach of that privilege and may result in legal action. This includes any announcements beyond the fact of my disfellowshipping, speeches, talks, or any other communication, written or oral, public or private.
Yours faithfully and discreetly,
Matthew J. Barrie -
70
What really matters to the elders- Podcast 9 Judicial Hearing
by Hobo Ken inthis is the next part of the story, when the judicial hearings begin.
click on the link here to listen...deathorobedience.blogspot.com.
also free on itunes here.
-
-
Hobo Ken
This is the next part of the story, when the Judicial Hearings begin. Click on the link here to listen...deathorobedience.blogspot.com
Also free on itunes here
Two elders turned up at my door and got me out of bed on the 17th of January on a Saturday morning to tell me that they had a "charge" of "apostasy" against me and named the two "witnesses" who were bringing the accusation as Paul Barrie and Ronnie Hunter and the hearing was scheduled for the Wednesday night. (21st)
I quickly got a version of the docbob letter in to them the next day at the meeting which is in the post below.( the importance of the letter will become clear later especially point 18)
This stalled them for a day or so but they called and said it would still be going ahead on the Wednesday as planned.
This is the first part of the first Judicial.
Enjoy.
Matt.
-
9
films with possible jw scenarios
by Rosey ini just read a post there about "the village" and how it has similarities to jw life.......it was a good wee film and i can definitely see the links..... it made me think of other films and programs where the scenarios have a very familiar feel to them...... star trek being the obvious one with "the borg"....... "fiddler on the roof".........obviously this was not meant to be jw's........but the similarities were amazing and i remember thinking it was perfectly normal that a family would cut their daughter out of their lives simply because she fell in love with someone from a different background......oh how my feelings have changed!.
any more you can think of?.
rose x.
-
-
Hobo Ken
There is a film which came out round about the time I started realising the truth about the JW organisation in 2001.
The film is Equilibrium starring Christian Bale (2001)
The similarities are exagerated in the film because of how far things have went (it's set in the near future) but one can only imagine what the Governing Body would do had they the kind of power the ruling class had in this film. The clerics, whom Christian Bale plays one of ,would represent the Elders who do the enforcing.
This was not a big hit at the time but a brilliant movie and much under-appreciated if a bit violent.
I would recommend a viewing. It will make a big impact on any who have had the JW experience.
Matt.
-
421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
-
-
Hobo Ken
Scholar
Jeremiah 25:11,12 clearly states:" And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’ “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, . . .
This Scripture passage clearly shows the supposed "70 years" prophecy was fulfilled when Babylon was destroyed by Cyrus. Everyone, even the Watchtower Society agrees that this occurred in 539 B.C.E.. Again this would mean that Counting backwards would take one to 609 B.C.E.and then applying the 2520 days "formula" and counting forward would take one to 1912. Again this date is no use to the WTS so 1914 is retained although it does not fit any of the facts or the Bible itself.
I wonder if you can call this an honest position to adopt?
The reason 1914 is so important is that the whole belief system of Jehovah's Witnesses is built on it. If it were to be discredited then what are JW's left with? The critical date of 1919 is derived from this same very shaky "chronology" and this is when it's claimed Jesus appointed the WTS and it's Governing Body (which didn't exist in 1919) with the authority they hold today.
Please do yourself a favour ScholarJw and find just one modern scholar or historian who is not connected to the Watchtower Society to verify that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607. I challenge you to not click on the WT cd rom and go to any book shop or museum or Jewish or Babylonian historical source and check when Jerusalem was destroyed. They all attest to 586/587 B.C.E.Hobo.
-
18
Jesus Found Him
by passwordprotected inthis will be posted on freeminds in due course for the benefit of jws who are reading the articles there;.
there are two accounts in the bible centered around jesus that were a great help to me as i was leaving the control of the watch tower society.. to me, the watch tower society, with it's governing body and local representatives, the elders, were my religious leaders.
i was, in all truth, a religious person.
-
-
Hobo Ken
>Reniaa
your religion is based on the premise that you are the "only true religion" .Correct?
Has your religion taught people what turned out to be lies and represented these as coming from God?
They most certainly have.
Check out this quote from your own publication.
*** w91 12/1 p. 7 Is Any Religion Good Enough? ***
How to Choose the Right Religion
What will guide us in choosing the right religion ? The Encyclopædia Universalis is correct when it highlights the importance of truth.
"A religion that teaches lies cannot be true."It does not matter who your Governing Body claim their authority from, they have , and continue to perpretrate lies to Jehovah's Witnesses.
What password is doing is presenting the Bible's message without the baggage of the Governing Body's cult agenda attached.
It's no surprise that you are trying to undermine his efforts as it shows you up for what you are ; a follower of a deluded group of old men who wouldn't know Jesus if he showed up on Brooklyn bridge.
Christianity is the true faith of that there is no doubt. Of course there are going to be people leading and setting an example and looking to care for one another; that others would look up to , but do you really imagine Jesus intended this to mean that they would literally have the power of life or death over their brothers?
Do yourself a favour mrs and wake up to the fact that you have been misled in the most horrible way.
Jehovah's witnesses are a misguided, high control , anti Christian cult.
Hobo
-
421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
-
-
Hobo Ken
I don't need to be "vindicated" for my integrity or beliefs in any dates.
As a Christian I will lead my life the way Jesus counsels , "No man knows the day or the hour". I don't serve with a date in mind from the past or the future. If you need 1914 to have a strong faith then you have a massive deficiency.
The Watchtower Society prophecies about 1914 all failed and they lied in their publications to make it seem llike they were right.
The Bible says clearly ,do not follow false prophets.
The Watchtower society admitted they were false prophets under oath in court. (Walsh case 1954)
I don't follow them or their false prophecies such as 1914 ,1915, 1925, 1975 etc etc........
Fill your boots Scholar......you deserve each other.
-
25
Where is the Love
by dearone inhi i'm dearone i have been reading here for quite some time.
presently am an active witness in good standing with two teenage daughters.
what originally brought me her was disillusion with the lack of love i experienced in the congregations i have attended.
-
-
Hobo Ken
Welcome Dearone.
In the real world there is love and hate but in the organisation a love which is by definition conditional.
If you were unlucky in the Watchtower Society that's too bad.
They love people to death.
Matt.
-
421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
-
-
Hobo Ken
The
Watchtower has abandoned the date of 1935 for the closing of the sealing of the annointed doctrine , reason:-
There are no scriptures to back it up.
The watchtower Society has admitted that 1918 is now "an interesting possibilty" in relation to their heavenly resurrection doctrine, reason:-
There are no scriptures to back it up.
The watchtower Society is mentioning the 1914 doctrine less and less. My local co-ordinator admitted to me that it is NOT a Bible doctrine. The reason?
He could not prove that the Bible teaches what is essentially a series of mathematical formulae and leaps of logic to arrive at the year 1914.
I wonder of the society were to eventually bin this doctrine how people like scholar would feel?
These people want and need to believe , which they are entirely welcome to do if they wish.
In a few short years those Gentile times will have ended ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS GOING TO A HUGE EMBARRASSMENT TO THE WATCHTOWER!!!!!!!
Hobo
-
421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
-
-
Hobo Ken
I have only just found this thread. It is first of all very impressive how you guys on here have demolished the falacious arguments (not reasonings) of the one known as scholar.
It seems from reading the all the posts that this has been done before.......
I cannot fail to be impressed also by Scholar's dogged determination to hold to what he believes to be true.
He of course has a vested interest in being a Watchtower apologist. He is defending his whole life course we are not.
He wrongly states several times that some dates give us a problem. Wrong again! These dates don't give us a problem because we already have figured that they are worthless along with much of what the WTS teaches their people...... That's why we left...
The dates the Watchtower uses to support it's unique take on neo Babylonian history are not supported by any evidence that I have encountered.
I have checked out the British museum and every library and book shop I am ever in. Books on world history, Jewish history, the history of the City of Jerusalem, the history of Babylon, .....you get the idea......and the one date I'm looking for is the date of 607 for the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by king Neb. I have yet to find it. They all say 586/7.
Do the Watchtower society and their apologists think that the whole world has formed a united conspiracy against them to rob them of their unique belief in the year 1914???
Aside from the Witnesses who else still believes that the 2520 year formula is a solid piece of Bible doctrine?
I know of no one.
Was it a witness teaching from the start?
No it was given to C.T. Russel by Nelson Barbour so it was not even "reaveled truth" from Jehovah through his "channel".
Still want to believe in it Scholar?
You are welcome to if you wish but in a cult you will defend anything you WANT OR NEED to believe in.
I noticed that Scholar admitted there was in fact some "wiggle room" because Chronology is not an exact science.....
How about these two quotes below? Do they allow for much room to "wiggle"? Or are they arrogant dogmatic statements which are sensational in their words but devoid of any proof or substance?
*** w72 12/15 p. 748 par. 5 The Time to Decide in the Name of Which God to Walk ***
By the end of the Gentile Times about October 4, 1914, eight nations and empires of Christendom, along with Japan, were fighting one another.
*** re chap. 18 p. 105 par. 5 Earthquakes in the Lord's Day ***
5 Thus, when C. T. Russell appeared for morning worship with the Brooklyn, New York, Bethel family on the morning of October 2, 1914, he made the dramatic announcement: "The Gentile Times have ended; their kings have had their day.
So the Watchtower have it down to a day of the week in the month of october 1914......that sure is impressive....all based on events 2520 years before......wow.....
Anyone else find it a bit disturbing when someone is talking about themselves in the 3rd person? e.g. "Scholar has defeated Alanf many times"
Wish I could have got on board with this one from the start.
Keep up the good work guys and girls.
Matt.